My mother, who is a child of American 1960's women's liberation, came back to the U.S. from South Sudan after a mission trip with her sister a few years ago. She told me about how women did all the work there. They carried buckets of water on their heads for kilometers. They did all the child-rearing. They raised plots in the gardens behind their houses to feed themselves and their children. What is worse, they did not even live with their husbands. The men would wander in from time to time have sex with the women and then leave them to their own devices. To make matters even worse, one man would have multiple women, and a few men basically just roamed around having sex with all the women while the other men sat around doing nothing.
When she had finished this horrid tale of woe. I said to her, "That sounds like a utopia of women's liberation? What is the problem?" She said, "oh no... it's awful and terrible and hopelessly misogynist." I then asked her to explain to me exactly how these Sudanese women differed from radical feminists? Is not the dream of radical feminism to do away with marriage, have men wander through from time to time for sex, while women provide for themselves? She stood sat there silently for a little while, and then said that was ridiculous. I asked how it was ridiculous? She said, "it just is," which is shorthand for "I have no sound reasoning to dispute what you are saying but I don't like it."
It's not trivial. In monogamous cultures, everyone gets married, then gets on with their lives. They invent, invest, think, build and raise strong children.
In polygamous cultures, all the spare energy goes into chasing sex. Either you're at the bottom and resenting not having any, or you're have, but want more.
It makes people un-aspirational, and unproductive.
Realise that a large part of the backwardness in Africa comes from it being too easy to get laid.
Think very hard before you change institutions like monogamy. They don't arrive by accident!
Oh wait, too late, the reasons for it weren't obvious, so we scrapped it decades ago.
I think that you have gotten to the heart of the matter. Feminism has always had one objective and one motivation: to remove the sexual regulations of monogamy and allow women to be promiscuous. The result, as you observe, is that a handful of sexually desirable (or rich as the case may be) men receive the attentions of women, and the rest lose all motivation. We are seeing this play out in the West now. You are correct to observe that monogamy has been essential to the "rise of the West," because it is a form of sexual egalitarianism and keeps most people vested in the social body and working toward the social interest.
Feminism misdirects its adherents by labeling anything monogamous as "patriarchy." The point that both you and I are making is that promiscuity has always been far more "patriarchal" than a strict monogamy. This is the point that my mother and our other deluded feminist friends fail to understand. Monogamy always and everywhere implies responsibilities for most of the men in society. Female promiscuity, just like polygamy, results in men not feeling any need to be responsible for child-rearing and family support. Having the courts chase down baby-daddies and attempt to sequester their paychecks is a pathetic substitution for encouraging women and men to be monogamous.
Very true. What I saw in Africa in Africa made a lot more sense in terms of Unwin's 'Sex and Power'. Where he makes the case that the strongest societies (Greeks, Romans, English) all became powerful through strict monogamy.
That polygamous societies are weak, poor, and unstable.
Augustus and Livia were known for being arch-conservatives and trying to return Rome to a past that they felt was based upon monogamous families and virtue within families. Their model was followed by many Romans. As we know, of course, it did not last with the Julio-Claudian dynasty falling into decadence by the time of Caligula. There were several restorations, always based upon this ideal of a return to virtuous family life with Vespasian, Constantine, Marcus Aurelius, and finally Justinian (even though his wife was originally an actress and prostitue. After she converted to Christianity, however, she became a model empress... even probably saving his crown with her bravery during the chariot race riots in Constantinople).
As for the Greeks, virtue within a monogamous family was certainly a priority for some: Athenians and Macedonians without doubt. However, the Dorians were somewhat notorious even in antiquity, for their pederasty and homosexuality, which several ancients including Aristotle claim they adopted from the Cretans (which would place the origin of the custom with the Minoans.)
It was Christianity, however, that set the practice as the rule for most of Europe. The more I study Western history the more I am convinced that Christianity is at least as important as the Greco-Roman influence on how the West developed.
A definitely true story brought to you by a definitely strong and smart man! Way to dunk on your mom, bro (what a bitch)! We could all learn from an alpha like you!
You're being mocked, dude. That's scorn and pity, not anger. I'm not the one who wrote a fictional short story about dunking on my feminist mom where everyone clapped for me at the end.
"Dude," I wasn't trying to "dunk" on my mother. I love my mother, but she is very confused about some things and has not thought through some of her positions, much like you. I was simply trying to point out that her position on the role of women in society is not well thought out and in fact leads to the opposite of what she thinks it will lead to.
I am not sorry that I have upset you. Running around pouring scorn and derision on everyone you disagree with is no way to go through life, son.
You don't know anything about me, my views, nor whether I disagree with you or not. Social shame is a lost art, and scorn and derision are perfectly acceptable tools to use when people in a shared community are being retarded. And please give up the "u mad bro" rhetoric, this isn't a 2009 Call of Duty lobby.
Unsurprising that a bunch of women would completely skip over any worthwhile point in the discussion. It's a Prisoner's Dilemma; society as a whole is clearly worse off, yet individually these women are enjoying certain creature comforts they don't want to give up. So it's impossible for them to have an honest discussion about any of this.
Women's lib was not an organic matter, but created by the central bank owners in order to double the workforce and weaken the nuclear family. Aaron Russo, the producer of Trading Places, was dying of cancer and he did an interview where he said he was friends with a high level Rockefeller who admitted to this plan. Here's the 3 minute clip from part of a much longer interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdtdidL2MQo
Women entered the workforce for the first time because they were needed in the workforce during WW1 & WW2.
America, the USSR & the UK in fact gained significant comparative advantage vs Germany & Japan because our women were allowed to be productive while theirs were not allowed to be, even as their industries fell further & further behind due to manpower shortages.
I don't need Google...I'm superior to modern google that is choreographed, I'm a historian with a vast deep breadth of knowledge from reading a lot of books.....YES books.......you know what those are ??
Wow! Amazingly well articulated! Apparently, I’m what people are (now) calling a “trad wife,” -- that is we raised 7 kids, I stayed home, still do, have dinner at the table every week night, etc. With two kids (very nearly grown), still at home, I look back on it all joyfully. Sure, it involved LOTS of sacrifice from everyone, but I wouldn’t change a thing.
My heart does, however, worry for the twenty-somethings without the grounding our kids have had. Heck, I also worry about our kids, ESPECIALLY the four boys.
Solutions? I like the ones you listed toward the end. That would be a GREAT start.
I agree with almost all of this analysis. I wish we had taken a differing path.
Imagine a sexual culture in which the message was as follows. As a young adult, sexual experimentation among multiple partners is an accepted part of growing to maturity. However, during that period an unexpected pregnancy is frowned upon and brings shame to both parties. Multiple forms of birth control are available, unlike the ‘50’s and before the pill.
However, to be considered an adult in a society you need to get to the point in life where you have a partner/spouse and are in a position to raise and support a family. That partnership may be either a homo or heterosexual relationship. The sign that you are an adult is entering and maintaining the relationship. That is your obligation for the rights society has given you.
Of course some relationships will fail. It is the intent and the effort that society seeks, fully confident that to the mature adult success will events appear.
Too many of us seek a legal solution to every problem. Sometimes culture is the better tool. We threw that tool away when we said that everyone has rights and no one has obligations. Big mistake.
Your thought experiment just exactly described the predominant morality and social etiquette of the top 20% of our society. They would never admit to it, but when you look at the social science data, this is exactly how educated upper income people structure their lives.
Only thing I disagree with is the birth control, which seems to be left solely to the woman. In all honesty, the pill or IUD, preferred choices, both incredibly harmful to women's bodies. A condom on the other hand has no ill effect on either, but is a man's responsibility. Even abortion is squarely on a woman's shoulders, and it has lasting effects, both physically and mentally. Imagine that! A little rubber could prevent so many problem, with little consequence, and STILL we can't seem to get it! Why not? I'm on the abstinence and banning porn sites, but I'm older..in my 60s, there seemed to be morals then that are missing today, but young people still have to make their way in this moraless society. I feel for them!
“ If you raped someone’s mother or wife or sister or daughter, you didn’t call the police. You hung the man from a tree. This was how the taboo was maintained in a culture where both premarital sex and rape were immoral.”
This is not true.
What happened is that the women would be called a whore, blamed and even killed for it. This is still happening in some societies btw.
We’re not far from “what was she wearing” even in the western world. This is still asked, or an equivalent, see how victims of rape are interrogated in court.
You seem to be conflating Western culture with Muslim, Russian, and Thai culture. Muslims seem to be the only ones who are prone to murder rape victims while the others may force rape victims to marry their rapist.
In the West, pigs like Bill Clinton like to murder the husband and then try to sexually assault the widow when she asks for a paid position. Yep, that champion of the left, who was great friends with Jeffrey Epstein, is still held up as an advocate for women's rights.
The current Democrat administration just arranged for 6 billion dollars to be released to Iran. This is great news for the regime that upholds shariah law. They have had a tough time quelling the unrest over their unjustified murder of a young woman last year and that 6 billion will really help them deliver "humanitarian aid" to their citizens.
But of course, the real problem is sexually frustrated men who want the west to return to healthy monogamous relationships between men and women as the norm.
The Lion of the Senate, that hero of the left, Teddy Kennedy actually murdered a young woman and it was covered up. But the #metoo crowd was all in on him because he believed in abortion.
Sorry... How exactly is it all down hill ‘because’ (?) of this amendment? Or just after it. And second, I dont think women voting changed much of actual trends, and third i agree there are clearly differences between men and women but honestly i can think of several better ways to decide who votes before dividing it down the gender line. care to respond? im not exactly taking this voting question specifically so seriously but am actively trying to sort these overall gender issues out/ understanding points of views.
They're natural nurturers and make decisions based on emotions not hard logic and facts.
Dad's practical
mom's sentimental.
This makes poor leaders..bad management....poor governance.
We've lost touch with the fact that women have a valuable job of being the protector of the Sacred Feminine..... we've turned them into just another taxpayer ...another wage slave.
And they've renounced their traditional roles of mother,homemaker, and the voice of reason and calm.... now women are radical activist warriors!!
They're all trying to change the world!!!..lol.
Look at the world's largest religion and how they handle their women.
I don’t disagree in a very general sense but don’t think it’s practical or even useful to have voting based on gender. Nor do it see it affecting much either way.
Then you are blind to the fact that all current social pathologies begin with empathy: the female vote. And all are downstream from “Oh, that poor...” illegal alien, incarcerated thug, socially-promoted illiterate, idiot teacher “doing her best,” unwed mother, murderer with post-partum depression. Add below-replacement fertility, low marriage rate, etc. The West rose for millennia without suffrage; it’s been accelerating downhill since. This is 100% 19A.
No. It comes from educated, elite, wealthy men, trying to solve real global problems..: and probably doing a fairly horrible job at it (but perhaps still managing to avoid some much more gruesome outcomes). The whole ‘fertility’ thing , marriage (lack of) etc was largely made up to avoid over population... men almost solely were the ones hypothesizing this issue and coming up with ‘solutions’... the solutions they came up with... are what we are living with now.
The role women played, which you are correct (assuming I understand your perspective) is they happily went along w the whole thing... as did the average male... (but the decisions about marriage, having children etc is much more about what the average woman thinks and behaves, and men responding to it, than the other way around imo).
Among millennials - the richest generation to date - women earn significantly more than men. No small number of women in this generation date down in terms of income. My millennial neighbor was engaged to a drummer for six years, and he hadn't worked for the last three. She has a full time corporate career & still cooked & kept house while he couch potatoed. What finally made her give him the boot wasn't his lack of income, but his complete unwillingness to participate in the everyday work of running a household. You can only vacuum around someone you're subsidizing so many times before you've had it. So it's true that women having to shoulder both working & parenting isn't going to go smoothly - but a large contributor to this fact is the abject inability or unwillingness of most men to parent and keep house.
And imagine believing literal memes from the internet and using that to imply women actually require six-six-six in their partners. Having only one of those three was enough to match me up with a sexy genius heiress so I really don't think the situation is what you're saying it is. (If you're curious, I was poor and I'm still short.) Some women post things like that to irritate men and bait angry male responses. They then publicize the angriest and stupidest male responses as a way to garner sympathy & support. Angry men amplify these posts by passing them around in male circles as ragefuel. So the reason you see such posts is because they successfully trigger men, not because women particularly agree with them.
Similarly, the only reason Grimes is there is because Elon Musk thought she was hot for a little while. Otherwise no one would be inviting a stale EDM act to a debate on feminism. Instead of putting in econd-string epeople with mostly male fanbases, they could look for participants on college debate teams & among elected officials & business leaders,
As far as I can tell he's able to cite no particular thing that he finds wrong. He expects people to believe that I "just don't get it" on the basis of what exactly? Can you cite a particular thing that you find wrong? A particular incorrect fact or assumption or leap of logic? Let's work through this like adults why don't we?
How do you feel about the fact that millennial women out-earn men by a significant margin - and yet still put in vastly more hours parenting & keeping home? What are men even doing?
My anecdote illustrates the factual situation that millennial women are doing way better than previous generations of women in their careers, while millennial men are doing worse than previous men - yet despite this, millennial women still put in the vast majority of parenting & housekeeping hours.
So the question is, what are men even doing with their time? Youtube? Video games? Porn? This?
you wife married down because she doesn't feel threatened by you.....you're that demasculated.....women do this so they have the power in the relationship, ....Am I wrong bigboy??
Wife wears the pants in your relationship doesn't she??
Oh I earn plenty of money now. But that's beside the point. What's really interesting here is how threatened you feel by powerful women. The truth is that you aren't comfortable in a relationship unless you have power over them & unless you have confidence that you're "higher status." You yourself don't have the confidence to date a woman without being 6-6-6 because you're afraid of being judged. That's called "beta mentality."
MOST men aren’t as you say. I have three sons. Two are married with kids. And me. Each does a lot around the house, each earns way more than the wife does. As for me, I have done more with my kids than my two wives, and was the sole support financially. My sons friends are very active in their children’s lives, many do the cooking. A lot of guys like cooking it turns out.
My millennial neighbor was engaged to a drummer for six years, and he hadn't worked for the last three. She has a full time corporate career & still cooked & kept house while he couch potatoed. What finally made her give him the boot wasn't his lack of income, but his complete unwillingness to participate in the everyday work of running a household.
WRONG!!!!
he stopped hitting that 'buttton"....as long as he was 'putting in the work" ....she was MORE than happy to have her own personal fvckboy at home.
They hadn't had sex in years. He literally laid on her coach and ate food and did nothing else for three years. Women are so god damn patient, to their own detriment quite often.
she was more than happy at the begining because he was a drummer, with that stamina and rhythmic talents....he made her SCREAM.....so she was happy to support his worthless ass....BUT as soon as he stopped making her go...." ooooooowwwwwwww, aaaaaaaah, ooooowwwww"
Why keep him around?
You better not forget this my friend....your 'genius' will upgrade your ass, ahahahahahahah
he must of really hit that good.....better than anyone else has ever in her life.
you must not be experienced if you don't know what I'm talking about....you got that one partner that just does it better than everyone else....you forgive a lot , ahahahah
I've always said that a good blow job or a nice set of tits makes up for a lot of deficiencies .
Millennials are in fact the wealthiest generation for their current stage of life. Millennials at an average age of 35ish are richer than genXers were at 35 or boomers were at 35. Millennials were also richer at 25 than current 25-year olds.
In finer grain, millennial men are doing about the same as boomers/genXers or a little worse on average. Millennial women, however, are knocking it out of the park compared to previous generations of women. Certain men can't cope with feeling inferior to the women in their lives.
- one man could work a regular non college degree job and provide for an entire family of 5.
he could buy a cottage, go on family vacations, custom order a car to his personal specifications, pay for his children's college educations, save money for a rainy day and retirement, enjoy recreation and personal hobbies, all while the woman stays home and is a true homemaker raising the children and creating a home for her family. ....ALL on one income.
You're using anecdotes and I'm using statistics. "We" as in millennial couples are doing better now than ever. Unmarried men are doing a bit worse, while unmarried women are doing way better.
How do you feel about the decline in male test scores across the board? Women are beating men at math now too.
you haven't used a single solitary statistic,...you've offered some of your misguided ill-informed opinions that millennials got it good in your view.....nothing scientific or factual about it...its simply your experience , your opinion.
You're rather proving my point by utterly failing to maintain adult decorum in our present environment, and utterly failing to engage in a constructive discussion. This is why women get tired of dealing with men, and why they're increasingly leaving men behind.
Thanks for the confessional. Yes I agree men are "demasculating themselves" - by addiction to food, the internet, video games, and pornography, leaving most of them unwilling to shoulder their share of the burden in parenting & homekeeping, and unable to compensate by earning more money. They thus bring nothing to a relationship.
Trying to kick women out of the workforce to solve this is just stupid. It's not gonna happen. Men learning to cook their own chicken, keep their own closets and parent their children is a eminently more reasonable.
I’ve got a kickass tradwife life going on. I’m also smart enough to notice that the “men” who run around asserting that all women are whores hellbent on the destruction of society and should be treated like such, aren’t exactly advertising themselves as prime husband/father/restore western civilization material. Whatever makes them feel good about themselves, I guess. But I won’t be telling my son that these sorts of folks are role models. 🙄
Your son will figure it out soon enough. Sons, grow into men, and then realize there are many things their moms told them.. which meant well, but dont match up with reality.
Feminism was created by the Satanic Marxist socialist NWO types to break down the Nuclear family, Invert and destroy God's natural order, as he promised God he would do.
Now look at it!
They've even appropriated the Christian Rainbow as their Flag , inverted it's true meaning to be associated with the original sin of PRIDE, pride which got Lucifer banished from Heaven.
This essay was absolutely excellent, masterfully articulating so many important considerations that have been blithely ignored by the feminist cult leaders (and their pathocrat bankrollers) for decades, even as the evidence continues to pile up showing how devastating the effects of feminism have been. Luxury beliefs that have been ruinously expensive for non-elites who've been forced or manipulated into adopting them. I'm glad to see the Overton Window finally shifting towards having a more open and honest conversation about these issues. This is long overdue, but better late than never!
The most fascinating part of this post & associated comments is noticing how fast and how many posts, articles, interviews in the past 2 yrs are commenting on and a result of the growing awareness that women’s suffrage has provided society no positives but an unending stream of negatives. As I am posting increasingly often: it’s a binary choice: female suffrage - or - Western Civilization.
This growing library of honesty regarding women outside / rejecting the home may prove the most important part of the non-corporate, non-narrative media environment in which we now find ourselves.
We may argue about policies for the future, but if feminism and enfranchisement of women continues, we won’t have a future to argue about.
Murray Rothbard wrote about this 3 decades ago. The Progressive Era and the Family.
The author of this piece strawmans libertarians and is conspicuously ambiguous about what actual principles of law would apply to women and their behavior in his society. And then he justifies child murder because some fictional majority consensus exists, of a subset of adults that isn’t a majority.
He says a lot of good things, but he veers into a imprecise rant with insinuations that will generate unnecessary objections he could
Prior to women becoming politicians, we would have never allowed strangers to enter our country without vetting them first. After women became politicians, we started allowing people to break the law by illegally entering the country, we allowed Muslims to enter, and we allowed them to rape our women and hurt our children.
It should also be pointed out that there were courtesans, mistresses, and kept women all through history. Women had a place, a place that they didn't want to admit. It's in the home, taking care of families.
Do Muslims rape at a high % than non Muslims in USA? I’m aware that black Americans rape white women at a high rate (and all women), but not aware of Muslims. In Europe I think I’ve seen some data. Anyways not sure it’s useful to single out Muslims raping USA women unless that is a specific issue. There are plenty of other actual valid issues that work.
The grooming gangs that plague the UK are all made up of Muslim Males. In Europe, especially in the Scandinavian countries and Germany and France, a majority of the rapes are Muslim males.
I think it's got something to do with a particular phrase from the Koran. "That which your right hand possesses." This gives them the right to take women who are not Muslim as concubines/slaves/wives, and infidel women are not protected as Muslim women are.
My mother, who is a child of American 1960's women's liberation, came back to the U.S. from South Sudan after a mission trip with her sister a few years ago. She told me about how women did all the work there. They carried buckets of water on their heads for kilometers. They did all the child-rearing. They raised plots in the gardens behind their houses to feed themselves and their children. What is worse, they did not even live with their husbands. The men would wander in from time to time have sex with the women and then leave them to their own devices. To make matters even worse, one man would have multiple women, and a few men basically just roamed around having sex with all the women while the other men sat around doing nothing.
When she had finished this horrid tale of woe. I said to her, "That sounds like a utopia of women's liberation? What is the problem?" She said, "oh no... it's awful and terrible and hopelessly misogynist." I then asked her to explain to me exactly how these Sudanese women differed from radical feminists? Is not the dream of radical feminism to do away with marriage, have men wander through from time to time for sex, while women provide for themselves? She stood sat there silently for a little while, and then said that was ridiculous. I asked how it was ridiculous? She said, "it just is," which is shorthand for "I have no sound reasoning to dispute what you are saying but I don't like it."
I live in Kenya. Can confirm this is true.
It's not trivial. In monogamous cultures, everyone gets married, then gets on with their lives. They invent, invest, think, build and raise strong children.
In polygamous cultures, all the spare energy goes into chasing sex. Either you're at the bottom and resenting not having any, or you're have, but want more.
It makes people un-aspirational, and unproductive.
Realise that a large part of the backwardness in Africa comes from it being too easy to get laid.
Think very hard before you change institutions like monogamy. They don't arrive by accident!
Oh wait, too late, the reasons for it weren't obvious, so we scrapped it decades ago.
Never mind.
I think that you have gotten to the heart of the matter. Feminism has always had one objective and one motivation: to remove the sexual regulations of monogamy and allow women to be promiscuous. The result, as you observe, is that a handful of sexually desirable (or rich as the case may be) men receive the attentions of women, and the rest lose all motivation. We are seeing this play out in the West now. You are correct to observe that monogamy has been essential to the "rise of the West," because it is a form of sexual egalitarianism and keeps most people vested in the social body and working toward the social interest.
Feminism misdirects its adherents by labeling anything monogamous as "patriarchy." The point that both you and I are making is that promiscuity has always been far more "patriarchal" than a strict monogamy. This is the point that my mother and our other deluded feminist friends fail to understand. Monogamy always and everywhere implies responsibilities for most of the men in society. Female promiscuity, just like polygamy, results in men not feeling any need to be responsible for child-rearing and family support. Having the courts chase down baby-daddies and attempt to sequester their paychecks is a pathetic substitution for encouraging women and men to be monogamous.
Very true. What I saw in Africa in Africa made a lot more sense in terms of Unwin's 'Sex and Power'. Where he makes the case that the strongest societies (Greeks, Romans, English) all became powerful through strict monogamy.
That polygamous societies are weak, poor, and unstable.
Worth at least reading the overview.
Augustus and Livia were known for being arch-conservatives and trying to return Rome to a past that they felt was based upon monogamous families and virtue within families. Their model was followed by many Romans. As we know, of course, it did not last with the Julio-Claudian dynasty falling into decadence by the time of Caligula. There were several restorations, always based upon this ideal of a return to virtuous family life with Vespasian, Constantine, Marcus Aurelius, and finally Justinian (even though his wife was originally an actress and prostitue. After she converted to Christianity, however, she became a model empress... even probably saving his crown with her bravery during the chariot race riots in Constantinople).
As for the Greeks, virtue within a monogamous family was certainly a priority for some: Athenians and Macedonians without doubt. However, the Dorians were somewhat notorious even in antiquity, for their pederasty and homosexuality, which several ancients including Aristotle claim they adopted from the Cretans (which would place the origin of the custom with the Minoans.)
It was Christianity, however, that set the practice as the rule for most of Europe. The more I study Western history the more I am convinced that Christianity is at least as important as the Greco-Roman influence on how the West developed.
A definitely true story brought to you by a definitely strong and smart man! Way to dunk on your mom, bro (what a bitch)! We could all learn from an alpha like you!
Are you OK? Do you need help? Do you really go through life this angry all the time?
You're being mocked, dude. That's scorn and pity, not anger. I'm not the one who wrote a fictional short story about dunking on my feminist mom where everyone clapped for me at the end.
"Dude," I wasn't trying to "dunk" on my mother. I love my mother, but she is very confused about some things and has not thought through some of her positions, much like you. I was simply trying to point out that her position on the role of women in society is not well thought out and in fact leads to the opposite of what she thinks it will lead to.
I am not sorry that I have upset you. Running around pouring scorn and derision on everyone you disagree with is no way to go through life, son.
You don't know anything about me, my views, nor whether I disagree with you or not. Social shame is a lost art, and scorn and derision are perfectly acceptable tools to use when people in a shared community are being retarded. And please give up the "u mad bro" rhetoric, this isn't a 2009 Call of Duty lobby.
You appear to have a problem with the factual reality that some mothers are abusive, and some women are actual bitches.
Well, it’s true.
Unsurprising that a bunch of women would completely skip over any worthwhile point in the discussion. It's a Prisoner's Dilemma; society as a whole is clearly worse off, yet individually these women are enjoying certain creature comforts they don't want to give up. So it's impossible for them to have an honest discussion about any of this.
Women's lib was not an organic matter, but created by the central bank owners in order to double the workforce and weaken the nuclear family. Aaron Russo, the producer of Trading Places, was dying of cancer and he did an interview where he said he was friends with a high level Rockefeller who admitted to this plan. Here's the 3 minute clip from part of a much longer interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdtdidL2MQo
You would also likely appreciate Schopenhauer's short essay "On Women", the abridged version of which is here: https://heretical.com/miscella/onwomen.html
Women entered the workforce for the first time because they were needed in the workforce during WW1 & WW2.
America, the USSR & the UK in fact gained significant comparative advantage vs Germany & Japan because our women were allowed to be productive while theirs were not allowed to be, even as their industries fell further & further behind due to manpower shortages.
Thank Rosie for your freedom
Plus: in Germany women DID work in the industry and elsewhere, during WW2. What you are stating is simply not true.
WW1?
huh?
no.....no they didn't
Yes...yes they did - https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/learning/first-world-war/the-munitionettes-and-the-work-of-women-in-the-first-world-war
Maybe google before you post
I don't need Google...I'm superior to modern google that is choreographed, I'm a historian with a vast deep breadth of knowledge from reading a lot of books.....YES books.......you know what those are ??
You said USA , Russia, and UK.
BUT.....USA was only at war for 100 days.....ahhaahah, and nothing changed back home.
Russia in WW1 was purely Czarist.....and women had no roles but traditional.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
SO you comment was extreme hyperbole....and not factually correct.
Wow! Amazingly well articulated! Apparently, I’m what people are (now) calling a “trad wife,” -- that is we raised 7 kids, I stayed home, still do, have dinner at the table every week night, etc. With two kids (very nearly grown), still at home, I look back on it all joyfully. Sure, it involved LOTS of sacrifice from everyone, but I wouldn’t change a thing.
My heart does, however, worry for the twenty-somethings without the grounding our kids have had. Heck, I also worry about our kids, ESPECIALLY the four boys.
Solutions? I like the ones you listed toward the end. That would be a GREAT start.
I agree with almost all of this analysis. I wish we had taken a differing path.
Imagine a sexual culture in which the message was as follows. As a young adult, sexual experimentation among multiple partners is an accepted part of growing to maturity. However, during that period an unexpected pregnancy is frowned upon and brings shame to both parties. Multiple forms of birth control are available, unlike the ‘50’s and before the pill.
However, to be considered an adult in a society you need to get to the point in life where you have a partner/spouse and are in a position to raise and support a family. That partnership may be either a homo or heterosexual relationship. The sign that you are an adult is entering and maintaining the relationship. That is your obligation for the rights society has given you.
Of course some relationships will fail. It is the intent and the effort that society seeks, fully confident that to the mature adult success will events appear.
Too many of us seek a legal solution to every problem. Sometimes culture is the better tool. We threw that tool away when we said that everyone has rights and no one has obligations. Big mistake.
Your thought experiment just exactly described the predominant morality and social etiquette of the top 20% of our society. They would never admit to it, but when you look at the social science data, this is exactly how educated upper income people structure their lives.
Only thing I disagree with is the birth control, which seems to be left solely to the woman. In all honesty, the pill or IUD, preferred choices, both incredibly harmful to women's bodies. A condom on the other hand has no ill effect on either, but is a man's responsibility. Even abortion is squarely on a woman's shoulders, and it has lasting effects, both physically and mentally. Imagine that! A little rubber could prevent so many problem, with little consequence, and STILL we can't seem to get it! Why not? I'm on the abstinence and banning porn sites, but I'm older..in my 60s, there seemed to be morals then that are missing today, but young people still have to make their way in this moraless society. I feel for them!
Excellent post
“ If you raped someone’s mother or wife or sister or daughter, you didn’t call the police. You hung the man from a tree. This was how the taboo was maintained in a culture where both premarital sex and rape were immoral.”
This is not true.
What happened is that the women would be called a whore, blamed and even killed for it. This is still happening in some societies btw.
We’re not far from “what was she wearing” even in the western world. This is still asked, or an equivalent, see how victims of rape are interrogated in court.
So your theory falls at the assumptions.
You seem to be conflating Western culture with Muslim, Russian, and Thai culture. Muslims seem to be the only ones who are prone to murder rape victims while the others may force rape victims to marry their rapist.
In the West, pigs like Bill Clinton like to murder the husband and then try to sexually assault the widow when she asks for a paid position. Yep, that champion of the left, who was great friends with Jeffrey Epstein, is still held up as an advocate for women's rights.
The current Democrat administration just arranged for 6 billion dollars to be released to Iran. This is great news for the regime that upholds shariah law. They have had a tough time quelling the unrest over their unjustified murder of a young woman last year and that 6 billion will really help them deliver "humanitarian aid" to their citizens.
But of course, the real problem is sexually frustrated men who want the west to return to healthy monogamous relationships between men and women as the norm.
Bubba was pro abortion. It is all about abortion. ALL. ‘You raped women!’ ‘It’s okay. I am pro abortion.’ ‘Awright! We can ignore the rapes then.’
The Lion of the Senate, that hero of the left, Teddy Kennedy actually murdered a young woman and it was covered up. But the #metoo crowd was all in on him because he believed in abortion.
you are referring to Muslim culture,...not Christian
I don’t know anyone who wants to kill a raped woman. That happens in some Muslim cultures. But not in Christian cultures.
You’re promoting debtor’s prison? That’s ghastly.
19th Amendment was when we sealed America's fate.
It's been all downhill since then .
Sorry... How exactly is it all down hill ‘because’ (?) of this amendment? Or just after it. And second, I dont think women voting changed much of actual trends, and third i agree there are clearly differences between men and women but honestly i can think of several better ways to decide who votes before dividing it down the gender line. care to respond? im not exactly taking this voting question specifically so seriously but am actively trying to sort these overall gender issues out/ understanding points of views.
Women are just too naturally gullible and naive.
They're natural nurturers and make decisions based on emotions not hard logic and facts.
Dad's practical
mom's sentimental.
This makes poor leaders..bad management....poor governance.
We've lost touch with the fact that women have a valuable job of being the protector of the Sacred Feminine..... we've turned them into just another taxpayer ...another wage slave.
And they've renounced their traditional roles of mother,homemaker, and the voice of reason and calm.... now women are radical activist warriors!!
They're all trying to change the world!!!..lol.
Look at the world's largest religion and how they handle their women.
What do they know?
Feminism is from the Devil
I don’t disagree in a very general sense but don’t think it’s practical or even useful to have voting based on gender. Nor do it see it affecting much either way.
Then you are blind to the fact that all current social pathologies begin with empathy: the female vote. And all are downstream from “Oh, that poor...” illegal alien, incarcerated thug, socially-promoted illiterate, idiot teacher “doing her best,” unwed mother, murderer with post-partum depression. Add below-replacement fertility, low marriage rate, etc. The West rose for millennia without suffrage; it’s been accelerating downhill since. This is 100% 19A.
No. It comes from educated, elite, wealthy men, trying to solve real global problems..: and probably doing a fairly horrible job at it (but perhaps still managing to avoid some much more gruesome outcomes). The whole ‘fertility’ thing , marriage (lack of) etc was largely made up to avoid over population... men almost solely were the ones hypothesizing this issue and coming up with ‘solutions’... the solutions they came up with... are what we are living with now.
The role women played, which you are correct (assuming I understand your perspective) is they happily went along w the whole thing... as did the average male... (but the decisions about marriage, having children etc is much more about what the average woman thinks and behaves, and men responding to it, than the other way around imo).
You're right nothing's changing.
We're stuck on Earth with Satan and he's in charge
No one is stuck. You choose to live. Never see yourself as a slave to the world. You and the world are partners.
Among millennials - the richest generation to date - women earn significantly more than men. No small number of women in this generation date down in terms of income. My millennial neighbor was engaged to a drummer for six years, and he hadn't worked for the last three. She has a full time corporate career & still cooked & kept house while he couch potatoed. What finally made her give him the boot wasn't his lack of income, but his complete unwillingness to participate in the everyday work of running a household. You can only vacuum around someone you're subsidizing so many times before you've had it. So it's true that women having to shoulder both working & parenting isn't going to go smoothly - but a large contributor to this fact is the abject inability or unwillingness of most men to parent and keep house.
And imagine believing literal memes from the internet and using that to imply women actually require six-six-six in their partners. Having only one of those three was enough to match me up with a sexy genius heiress so I really don't think the situation is what you're saying it is. (If you're curious, I was poor and I'm still short.) Some women post things like that to irritate men and bait angry male responses. They then publicize the angriest and stupidest male responses as a way to garner sympathy & support. Angry men amplify these posts by passing them around in male circles as ragefuel. So the reason you see such posts is because they successfully trigger men, not because women particularly agree with them.
Similarly, the only reason Grimes is there is because Elon Musk thought she was hot for a little while. Otherwise no one would be inviting a stale EDM act to a debate on feminism. Instead of putting in econd-string epeople with mostly male fanbases, they could look for participants on college debate teams & among elected officials & business leaders,
You missed all of the points. Nice work, you made your ignorance look effortless.
It's female typical reading comprehension. Proves the author's point.
I have a dick and it's bigger than yours - said so in my comment, which you apparently didn't even read before weighing in scrotefully.
But is it real? I mean, were you born with it?
Well that's even more pathetic.
women has a special talent for that.
My dick's bigger than yours - looks like we have another non-reader. The literacy deficit these days is truly sad.
where do you get all these assumptions?
based on one neighbor?
ahahahhaa
laughable.
but typical and predictable from a shitlib.
Point out for me all the points I missed, would you kindly? "You're wrong" isn't an argument, just so you know.
No.
Oh so you're just having a little fit then. Thanks for letting me know
He's wisely not wasting his time on someone incapable of the thought and self-composure necessary to have this conversation.
As far as I can tell he's able to cite no particular thing that he finds wrong. He expects people to believe that I "just don't get it" on the basis of what exactly? Can you cite a particular thing that you find wrong? A particular incorrect fact or assumption or leap of logic? Let's work through this like adults why don't we?
Your anecdote about one neighbor justifies your pejorative generalizations about “most men?” Next
How do you feel about the fact that millennial women out-earn men by a significant margin - and yet still put in vastly more hours parenting & keeping home? What are men even doing?
you comment is baseless and meaningless....just more shitlibs faux science
Yet you don't feel like arguing any specific point. Should be easy, if I'm really so stupid. But you won't. None of you will! Funny how that works.
I just checked. Millenial women make $.90 to men’s $1.00. It is close. And easily explained by choice rather than sexism.
Next
You didn't have to reply - but you did reply, because you're upset that I'm right.
reply to your opinion?
you're assessment is based on one example , ahahahahahahaha
you're beyond silly.
"most"
" over earn"
"do more "
ahahahahahahahah
HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS>???
My anecdote illustrates the factual situation that millennial women are doing way better than previous generations of women in their careers, while millennial men are doing worse than previous men - yet despite this, millennial women still put in the vast majority of parenting & housekeeping hours.
So the question is, what are men even doing with their time? Youtube? Video games? Porn? This?
you wife married down because she doesn't feel threatened by you.....you're that demasculated.....women do this so they have the power in the relationship, ....Am I wrong bigboy??
Wife wears the pants in your relationship doesn't she??
Oh I earn plenty of money now. But that's beside the point. What's really interesting here is how threatened you feel by powerful women. The truth is that you aren't comfortable in a relationship unless you have power over them & unless you have confidence that you're "higher status." You yourself don't have the confidence to date a woman without being 6-6-6 because you're afraid of being judged. That's called "beta mentality."
you are so fucking gay.
MOST men aren’t as you say. I have three sons. Two are married with kids. And me. Each does a lot around the house, each earns way more than the wife does. As for me, I have done more with my kids than my two wives, and was the sole support financially. My sons friends are very active in their children’s lives, many do the cooking. A lot of guys like cooking it turns out.
My millennial neighbor was engaged to a drummer for six years, and he hadn't worked for the last three. She has a full time corporate career & still cooked & kept house while he couch potatoed. What finally made her give him the boot wasn't his lack of income, but his complete unwillingness to participate in the everyday work of running a household.
WRONG!!!!
he stopped hitting that 'buttton"....as long as he was 'putting in the work" ....she was MORE than happy to have her own personal fvckboy at home.
They hadn't had sex in years. He literally laid on her coach and ate food and did nothing else for three years. Women are so god damn patient, to their own detriment quite often.
I know....you agree with me, hahahahahaha
that why he was kicked out.....'no sex'....duh.
she was more than happy at the begining because he was a drummer, with that stamina and rhythmic talents....he made her SCREAM.....so she was happy to support his worthless ass....BUT as soon as he stopped making her go...." ooooooowwwwwwww, aaaaaaaah, ooooowwwww"
Why keep him around?
You better not forget this my friend....your 'genius' will upgrade your ass, ahahahahahahah
BTW....3 years???.....
he must of really hit that good.....better than anyone else has ever in her life.
you must not be experienced if you don't know what I'm talking about....you got that one partner that just does it better than everyone else....you forgive a lot , ahahahah
I've always said that a good blow job or a nice set of tits makes up for a lot of deficiencies .
you asked for refutation....
n you first sentence you are WRONG....millennials aren't the richest generation...ahahahahahahaahahahaha, what a clown comment.
EVERYTHING after that is baseless conjecture
Millennials are in fact the wealthiest generation for their current stage of life. Millennials at an average age of 35ish are richer than genXers were at 35 or boomers were at 35. Millennials were also richer at 25 than current 25-year olds.
In finer grain, millennial men are doing about the same as boomers/genXers or a little worse on average. Millennial women, however, are knocking it out of the park compared to previous generations of women. Certain men can't cope with feeling inferior to the women in their lives.
both people working nowadays and you can barely keep up...ahahahaahhahaah
you must live a coddled wife with your wife's money huh?
We don't take a cent from either of our parents. That would be trashé.
FALSE
In the 1950's;
- one man could work a regular non college degree job and provide for an entire family of 5.
he could buy a cottage, go on family vacations, custom order a car to his personal specifications, pay for his children's college educations, save money for a rainy day and retirement, enjoy recreation and personal hobbies, all while the woman stays home and is a true homemaker raising the children and creating a home for her family. ....ALL on one income.
We've never had it better.
You're using anecdotes and I'm using statistics. "We" as in millennial couples are doing better now than ever. Unmarried men are doing a bit worse, while unmarried women are doing way better.
How do you feel about the decline in male test scores across the board? Women are beating men at math now too.
I offered FACTS.
HOW?
how did a man do it in the 1950's
one income provided all of that.....more than 2 incomes provide today.
WHICH proves your assertion is incorrect.
you haven't used a single solitary statistic,...you've offered some of your misguided ill-informed opinions that millennials got it good in your view.....nothing scientific or factual about it...its simply your experience , your opinion.
thank you for replying and providing real world examples of what the author is espousing.
you prove all of our bias and preconceptions....thank you for that.
You're rather proving my point by utterly failing to maintain adult decorum in our present environment, and utterly failing to engage in a constructive discussion. This is why women get tired of dealing with men, and why they're increasingly leaving men behind.
I lost ALL decorum online by 2005.
The shitlibs have ruined it for everyone, I'm an abused dog now and I look to bite first .......intial reaction is always to BITE.
and women are leaving men behind because men are demasculating themselves....real men have no problems.
Thanks for the confessional. Yes I agree men are "demasculating themselves" - by addiction to food, the internet, video games, and pornography, leaving most of them unwilling to shoulder their share of the burden in parenting & homekeeping, and unable to compensate by earning more money. They thus bring nothing to a relationship.
Trying to kick women out of the workforce to solve this is just stupid. It's not gonna happen. Men learning to cook their own chicken, keep their own closets and parent their children is a eminently more reasonable.
I’ve got a kickass tradwife life going on. I’m also smart enough to notice that the “men” who run around asserting that all women are whores hellbent on the destruction of society and should be treated like such, aren’t exactly advertising themselves as prime husband/father/restore western civilization material. Whatever makes them feel good about themselves, I guess. But I won’t be telling my son that these sorts of folks are role models. 🙄
Your son will figure it out soon enough. Sons, grow into men, and then realize there are many things their moms told them.. which meant well, but dont match up with reality.
Easy math for people
feminism = Marxist socialists = Satan
Feminism was created by the Satanic Marxist socialist NWO types to break down the Nuclear family, Invert and destroy God's natural order, as he promised God he would do.
Now look at it!
They've even appropriated the Christian Rainbow as their Flag , inverted it's true meaning to be associated with the original sin of PRIDE, pride which got Lucifer banished from Heaven.
Can people not see this ?
If women are incapable of accountability then what’s the point of blaming women?
because recognition is one of the first steps in any recovery, you need to know where you went wrong to fix it.
This essay was absolutely excellent, masterfully articulating so many important considerations that have been blithely ignored by the feminist cult leaders (and their pathocrat bankrollers) for decades, even as the evidence continues to pile up showing how devastating the effects of feminism have been. Luxury beliefs that have been ruinously expensive for non-elites who've been forced or manipulated into adopting them. I'm glad to see the Overton Window finally shifting towards having a more open and honest conversation about these issues. This is long overdue, but better late than never!
The most fascinating part of this post & associated comments is noticing how fast and how many posts, articles, interviews in the past 2 yrs are commenting on and a result of the growing awareness that women’s suffrage has provided society no positives but an unending stream of negatives. As I am posting increasingly often: it’s a binary choice: female suffrage - or - Western Civilization.
This growing library of honesty regarding women outside / rejecting the home may prove the most important part of the non-corporate, non-narrative media environment in which we now find ourselves.
We may argue about policies for the future, but if feminism and enfranchisement of women continues, we won’t have a future to argue about.
Murray Rothbard wrote about this 3 decades ago. The Progressive Era and the Family.
The author of this piece strawmans libertarians and is conspicuously ambiguous about what actual principles of law would apply to women and their behavior in his society. And then he justifies child murder because some fictional majority consensus exists, of a subset of adults that isn’t a majority.
He says a lot of good things, but he veers into a imprecise rant with insinuations that will generate unnecessary objections he could
have avoided.
Prior to women becoming politicians, we would have never allowed strangers to enter our country without vetting them first. After women became politicians, we started allowing people to break the law by illegally entering the country, we allowed Muslims to enter, and we allowed them to rape our women and hurt our children.
It should also be pointed out that there were courtesans, mistresses, and kept women all through history. Women had a place, a place that they didn't want to admit. It's in the home, taking care of families.
Do Muslims rape at a high % than non Muslims in USA? I’m aware that black Americans rape white women at a high rate (and all women), but not aware of Muslims. In Europe I think I’ve seen some data. Anyways not sure it’s useful to single out Muslims raping USA women unless that is a specific issue. There are plenty of other actual valid issues that work.
The grooming gangs that plague the UK are all made up of Muslim Males. In Europe, especially in the Scandinavian countries and Germany and France, a majority of the rapes are Muslim males.
I think it's got something to do with a particular phrase from the Koran. "That which your right hand possesses." This gives them the right to take women who are not Muslim as concubines/slaves/wives, and infidel women are not protected as Muslim women are.
Right I’ve heard that also.